4 Comments

  1. Not often you find a bookmaker prepared to answer claims from punters that they don’t lay a bet. Hopefully you’ll afford some credit

    http://www.bookiedispute.com/?p=841 Check these claims out.

    This is a blog from someone called ‘Rob’ – Rob is anonymous. He wants to make his claims without anyone knowing who he is. Not quite brave enough to make his argument in his own name. Right up there in the highest echelons of the Betfair forum. The place for unlicensed individuals to vent their spleen anonymously. Be as rude as you like and say what you like when no one knows your name can’t you?

    Well no. You cannot. Check the headline ‘Rob’ comes up with

    ‘Is Geoff Banks the lamest bookie in the world’ makes overwhelming suggestion that I don’t lay a bet. That my long standing reputation for laying a fair bet is in fact a sham.

    His remarks are nothing short of slanderous. The fact remains you cannot sit on social networking and say just whatever pleases you. If you make allegations against another individual, those allegations have to be substantiated, by you, in as court of law. Being unaware that’s the law of the land, doesn’t give you immunity.

    The last time I tested these laws was with one particular idiot who thought it would be amusing to describe me as a cokehead on Twitter. That little escapade cost him damages and expenses approaching fifty grand. That’s fifty grand for opening your mouth and letting your tongue wobble Rob.

    In the last few months alone my office has paid out 93 grand to one customer and 55 grand to another. Both those customers still wager with me without any restriction. That’s a fact. And we have many customers who bet with us who do in fact show a profit on their betting. Wagering without any appreciable restrictions. Because their business is recreational, win or lose.

    But, and it’s a big but. There are plenty of loud mouth individuals on Twitter or the like who sit at home utilising expensive trading software, price scalping tools, odds scanners or the like, masking their IP address- only offering a bookmaker a bet because their odds have become out of date, and therefore bigger than Betfair’s exchange. Engaged in such activity marks your business out as professional. You’ve no complaint expecting us to help you run business.

    I certainly don’t run a sportsbook to help these unlicensed individuals with their money trading or arbing. I’m not here to support their activities and I do not have to justify not laying them a bet, or restricting such traders to pennies because I see them as simple parasites on my firm.

    I don’t owe you a living, and you need to get that into your head. You can’t describe yourself as a ‘punter’ when your machine tells you to back Stau Bucharest on the Asian handicap because it’s less on Betfair. You’re quite simply a money trader. A punter has a bet in the Grand National, or the cup final, because that’s what punting truly is. Not what you do.

    Of course there are those who say, well you put those odds up so you should lay them. Well, of course we do, we don’t put up prices our customers can’t take. We don’t need a £5000 guarantee on ITV races like Coral offer (shops only of course, because we lay these bets every race, every day. And we don’t mind if the recreational punter helps himself win or lose. But not the scalper. You justify what you do by saying we only want mugs. That’s not correct at all, we simply don’t want professional arbers. You’ll unfairly describe anyone not sitting at home with their trading tool scanning websites for margin advantages as mugs. That’s disrespectful. They’re not in it for the same reasons you are.

    Let’s deal with Rob. He describes ‘a horse racing enthusiast’ who deposited money with me. Are you joking? Who’s this enthusiast? Name him. If there’s any veracity in your ridiculous claims let him speak for himself. Of course the enthusiast is in fact himself. Rob. He’s using a ghost account to get on. I mean who writes rants on behalf of mates?

    Let’s be honest here, the enthusiast is in fact our friend Rob, one and the same. Do you think anyone believes the ridiculous claim about some fictional mate who couldn’t get on, and he’s having a rant on his friend’s behalf. Don’t make me laugh. I mean who rants about someone else’s betting problems?

    He describes two wagers. He claims they were placed and neither ‘price was out of line.’ Do you believe him? Do you think it’s in the least bit possible that if those prices were achievable on Betfair exchange at the time, that he wouldn’t have availed himself on the exchange?

    Of course not. Rob is a thorough going liar. Of course the wagers were giant arbs, or perhaps job money. It’s hard to say because we take thousands of bets a month and funnily enough we can’t find any ‘horse racing enthusiast called Rob’ who had anything like these wagers.

    Do you think, accepting the possibility we couldn’t find the wagers he describes, but that they exist in some differing form, that we would have restricted this fictional customer after just two wagers if our information wasn’t utterly conclusive that not only these wagers, but subsequent requests he made weren’t all identified as selections picked solely because an arbing or trading situation arose to his benefit?

    One final point in dealing with Rob, and the small army of Rob’s out there trading on Betfair in your underpants, forming your own bookie hating communities. A few months ago, I had the unhappy fortune to run into several hundred individuals who were using ghost ‘friend’ accounts to help themselves to bookmaker open account offers. Bear this in mind. If you’re using friends to place wagers on your behalf, there are two inescapable facts. One, your friend becomes your agent and is required to have an agent’s license from the gambling commission. And two, you’re effectively running a business, via agents and you’re liable for taxation on your punting and profiteering from bonus offers. Deal with that.

    That’s why they’re anonymous. But your IP address gives the game away.

  2. Not sure whose side I am on here.
    Fence sitting due to lack of evidence perhaps.

    Geoff says on his site about page

    “His clients do not need to take a ‘lesser price to get on’ nor does he apply silly restrictions on clients because they have backed a few winners.”

    What is the definition of “lesser price”?

    Many recreational punters will use oddschecker.
    Is his no lesser price promise based on that?
    If not what is his official measure of lesser price?
    Not less than the more cut down set of bookie odds on the racing post?
    Or perhaps an even further cut down list of the big three?

    Some clarity from Geoff would be useful about the precise nature of his advertised promises regarding his clients not having to take “lesser prices” to get on.

    A lot of gripes in this world often arise when someones says one thing but does the complete opposite. That is probably the root of Rob’s gripe here. He does not feel statements made by GB matched up exactly with what was experienced after join up rigmaroles were went through. Who appreciates getting led astray of having their time wasted.

    Should Geoff’s about page and promises be altered to be more accurate?
    Highlight on them even the sort of clients / client action he does not want.
    If up in advance in black and white there will be little valid grounds for moans.

    And Rob perhaps try running the experiment again with a new assistant investigator but this time taking screen shots of markets and odds etc.
    Video it even.

    That would make it a bit clearer about the nature of bets made.
    eg just a normal enough punt on a fancied horse or trying to pound a lagging arbable price that is way out of line with market norms.

    Any uk bookie who strongly encourages arbers should be treated with caution.
    Springing to mind are burns bookies from the early 2000’s
    Interpol are probably still chasing them after they absconded
    Better one’s bookie stays in business so they can pay you out 🙂

    Such a 2nd videoed test may be a good idea.

    Geoff is suggesting they were massive arbs.
    Rob is suggesting odds were not out of line at all.

    Both can’t be correct.

    Assuming so past evidence was stored at the time..do a retest.

    Cheers
    Mick

  3. I never understood why bookies hate arbers. Whats the difference between someone that bets with them and then lays it of on Betfair and someone that bets with them and lets the bet run? Make no sense to me. Maybe GB can enlighten me.

  4. Geoff, arbing is dead in the water and this seems a ready made excuse to close accounts.

    Firstly most bookmakers odds are electronically linked to the betfair prices and will adjust to ensure they are under the exchange price. Occasionally, you may see a click or two over the price (i.e. 5/1 bookmaker and 6.2 on exchange).

    Secondly, in the morning of the race, when there may be value in the early prices, the amount available to lay on betfair (especially if close to a possible arb) is literally a few pounds. Making arbing completely useless.

    By the time there is any money on the exchange, the race is upon us and any value in the early prices is long gone.

    Finally does the use of oddschecker make a punter non-recreational? No, it is simply a modern day consumer tools like the GoCompare and Money Supermarket, to help ensure you are getting good value.

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